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[转帖] 文明5半吊子回合战报 之 罗马大战易洛魁

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发表于 2010-9-3 11:26:31 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
法语原文:
http://www.cyberstratege.com/mag ... ans-civilization-5/

GOOGLE网页翻译后的网页:
http://translate.google.com/tran ... n&langpair=auto|en&tbb=1&ie=utf-8

翻得还是能看的,法译英的效果还不坏。这篇战报只打了一小段,但是经过说得比较详细,具体到了一回合中发生了什么,可以一看。
 楼主| 发表于 2010-9-3 11:28:08 | 显示全部楼层
First combat in Civilization 5
September 1, 2010
By Bertrand

For this third part of our exploration of the mechanisms of Civ 5, we will present here a small war, as you will be able to lead early in the game of battles logic remains the same As you progress, only the extent of commitments becomes more important, essentially.

For this part we tried a different card (small continents, arid climate, sparse resources, low sea level, 14 CIVS, 20 city-states) and chose Rome. As you can imagine Rome offers serious advantages to carve an empire, namely two strong special teams, the ballista and the Roman legion. However, these units require iron, and therefore do not appear immediately. Rome is "fragile" at the start, especially against the Greek (Hoplites), the Egyptian (archers on chariots), the aztec (jaguar warriors), the Persian (immortal) or the Babylonian (special archers). Besides the risk that arise because of Japan's code of Bushido.

Features of the two special units, which may occur here, however. Based on the example that follows, however, easily can imagine the tactical advantage that Rome can be taken during the classical era (at the end of antiquity).

Triggerfish (replaces catapult)
Siege weapon, * Combat 4 Battle at distance 18, Range 2, Travel 2, Bonus's battle against the cities, various penalty (no defensive bonus, installation required before attack, limited field of vision, no attack close combat ), requires iron and mathematics; rendered obsolete by physics; improves in Trebuchet

Legion (replaces swordsman)
Combat 13, travel 2, requires iron and iron work, made obsolete by gunpowder, bravo to improve in longsword. Can build roads and forts.

Rome also has the advantage of a bonus of 25% for the production of buildings already in the capital (Glory of Rome). This example will reduce the production cost of barracks.

The Roman capital is based on the dunes by the sea with fish, incense, and sheep around. Never mind the development of civilization, just as here broadly to give you a perspective on the time needed to mount an army capable of guaranteeing in the first conquest.

[ 本帖最后由 ikariam 于 2010-9-3 12:10 编辑 ]
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 楼主| 发表于 2010-9-3 11:28:32 | 显示全部楼层
Round 1: an ancient ruin reveals barbarians due north and south is (better than nothing, to go and practice armies. Production of a scout.
Tower 5: Elizabeth declares his hostility for no apparent reason.
Tour 9: 2nd ancient ruins, map of the area (no luck, a cache of weapons would have been welcome).
Tour 13: 3rd ancient ruins, 55 or more in the treasury.
Round 16: The population of Rome now 3.
Round 22: Discovery of navigation (to exploit the fish shortly after).
Tour 23: Rome is committed towards social Honor (many military bonus).
Tower 25: a camp of barbarians shaved (9 xp / 200 for 1 illustrates general).
Round 26: barbarians at the gates of Rome (they have nothing to loot).
Round 28: other barbarians coming from the north this time.
Round 29: Discovery of Pottery.
Round 32: first class unit (facing barbarians in Rome).
Round 33: Deal with Catherine Elizabeth cons.
Round 34: Cooperation with Hiawatha and Catherine.
Round 35: contact with Belgrade (south, near the Egyptian).
Round 36: Discovery of Archery.
Round 38: discovery of artifacts in an ancient ruin (30 culture), adopting the Warrior, which gives a great general, it allows a golden age of eight rounds (each golden age triggered by a figure 3 illustrates reduced the duration of the next golden age, minimum 3 revolutions) or build a fortress (+100% defense unit and -3 PV adjacent enemy unit). General Sun Tzu takes command of Roman armies.
Round 39: Rome + a pop.
Round 43: discovery of mining.
Tower 44, a farm will optimize the use of wheat fields.
Round 45: barbarian camp razed to the east.
Round 46: first archers.
Round 47: Great Lighthouse and Stonehenge were built somewhere in a distant land.
Round 55: Discovery of Calendar; Great Library built, no one knows where; pastures can earn a bonus in production (1) in Rome.
Round 56: Singapore Belgrade wants to see disappear, our scouts struggling with barbarians in the south (promotion); the archers kill other north.
Round 58: adoption of the doctrine Military Tradition (experience gained in combat multiplied by 2).
Round 61: Planting loblolly built (happiness goes to 9), the Iroquois out of its vast forest to build a city near a site of choice (gem / livestock / fish) near Rome. It is a casus belli for Rome.
Round 63: Oracle is built in a distant country.
Round 64: The Colossus was built somewhere in the distance.
Round 65: Discovery Labour bronze barbarian camp was razed to the north.
Round 66: Anzio is based (horses / livestock) south of Rome.
Round 67: Rome goes to 5 people.

[ 本帖最后由 ikariam 于 2010-9-3 11:29 编辑 ]
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 楼主| 发表于 2010-9-3 11:29:18 | 显示全部楼层
Round 70: The war is declared against the Iroquois! Grand River Rome attack to 4 cons 1 (2 archers, 2 warriors), the city population was 2, 7 defense, not far from a warrior, which is immediately bombarded by an archer (-5 pv cf. Screenshot above ), the city also (-3 pv cf. screenshot below), just after capturing Iroquois workers. An archer wins competence (bonus terrain, practiced here for forests).

The Iroquois has the advantage of being able to cross the jungles and forests, in allied territory, as if there were roads. These lands can also serve as trade routes. The warrior Mowhak, single unit that replaces the bully, a 11 in combat, requires iron, and also a bonus in combat in the jungles and forests. With two cities Iroquois the outskirts of Rome, and in the future warriors almost as powerful as the Roman legions, leaving the Indians to settle was a very risky bet. Especially that Hiawatha had four cities. And in Rome a spice to the two deposits of precious stones available (the second is further south-west, near a gold mine for that matter!), It limited the development of the Roman Empire, people as the emperor was filled with happiness when we speak of gems.

Still, the Iroquois warriors fled, and that small bombs are made from Grand River and the nearby town, Osininka (-1 pv every time for us). The fact that the Iroquois had not had time to extend its borders has allowed us to infiltrate our troops between the two cities. At this stage of the game in terms of the risk is minimal and bombing forests and hills to the Roman soldiers ensure an excellent position, both in terms of range for archers, or defensive end in case of attack-cons.

Round 71: Grand River bombing by the archers, who were promoted (25% vs Seat + cities); 2nd bombing of the city, which takes flames attack the warriors and the city is almost taken, he is 1-2 pv our warriors have cashed -3 pv (they are 6, which is enough for a next attack); Antium runs 2 population, and Rome to buy another 50 or hex-rich fish because Antium took wheat Rome ... Already the Roman governors to steal one another the best resources, "that promises the future.

Round 72: Iroquois Osininka since launching a suicide attack on our soldiers protecting the archers, the previously injured Iroquois warriors face a valiant defense of Rome, and were eliminated new small bombings in Indian cities; River had to heal a bit (1-2 pv?), a rain of arrows, the incendiary back to a defense, the next attack of the latter is useless archers (the defense of the city no longer decreases), the onslaught of warriors (- 3 PV) can attach River. Happiness goes to -1 (the River is more pop than 1). The Iroquois captured shortly before workers began construction of a mine to exploit the vein of gems.
As a precaution, Rome decided to "sell" to Catherine incense for 300 gold, and passes in stride alliance with Belgrade, militaristic city-state (it will send regular units). This alliance will cost 500 gold, but lets get some wine, Belgrade finishing the construction of a plantation, and horses, practice for future wars. Belgrade also declares war on the Iroquois, which is useless given its remoteness.

Round 73: Discovery of Scripture, this will give our general Sun Tzu's time to write down his thoughts on the art of war against the Indians; Osininka bombard the archers (-1 lw), the warriors are promoted and River will heal. The Roman army was still a potential offensive enough to capture the other city Iroquois. For example, thanks to its illustrious General who gives 25% to neighboring units (2 hexes away, General stacks with the soldiers)!

Round 74: the archers are still bombarded by Osininka promoted (HQ!) Again (one unit wins bombed 2XP for battle here with four military doctrine Tradition). In general illustration rome points is 108/200. Our two archers then attack with 25% for general and 25% for the jurisdiction is located, or potential 9, with + / - 3 pts damage. Recognizing the potential of 8 Osininka, which has 4 people. Chance, twice 4 pts damage on the city Iroquois, whose life points are thus almost halved.
Reinforcements from Rome attacked the city from the north, but no bonus bypass here (as is the case against a unit), other Roman warriors attack Osininka south, reducing the defenses of the city near nothing (a prior). A fourth unit of warriors out of the dunes of Rome, come to reinforce the territories conquered in case of attack against the Iroquois. It is doubtful, given that Hiawatha recognized during our last discussion that the Roman armies were very powerful. If the Indian knew the plans set by our military in the first barracks building ... As if Rome was that powerful!
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 楼主| 发表于 2010-9-3 12:12:30 | 显示全部楼层
Civ 5 plant and Steam offers me an update (which has nothing to do with Civ 5). No luck again, I could not go to the use of catapults and legions, and therefore this part will stop here. Whatever. Again, it is only a beta version of Civ 5, which is ample to see the operation of the new arrangements, flawless operation incidentally. We note also that in a recent interview the lead designer Jon Shafer, suggested that such adjustments were still made on Wonderland.

Anyway it was so good as it was said a real strategic depth and tactical. It should consider establishing a frontline, to build on the ground (hill to increase firing range of the archers; rivers and rugged terrain to be covered), to protect its flanks (especially for archers, even for Artillery) to be used of course the best skills, but also to track your experience of our units, because experience can quickly be won, including by being attacked and especially, of course, following the route of honor. So make your teeth on the barbarians, and then engage clutch on a real opponent.

Also note that the ranged combat is not working everywhere, some sites blocking line of sight (hill forests, which reduce handy), thus forcing them to carefully consider its position not to let the enemy fault which could benefit . A competency can take over an obstacle.

In terms of movement, a unit of a control area (the surrounding hexes), which "consumes" all points of movement of the enemy when he returns. Simple scouts can therefore bypass slow motion on your flank by the enemy (even after being seriously messed up). Not to mention the usefulness of recognition in attacking, of course.
The strong should also take much more important than before.

Cities are not mine adversaries should not be neglected (they also have more hit points than a normal unit, PV will reduce it to 0 to win the city). Especially with a garrison (unit) parked inside. We can also now consider the construction of city-fortresses designed to stamp on a border with a belligerent neighbor.

The Navy for its part is another matter. In addition to the naval battles shore bombardment allows a single trireme to provide valuable assistance to a fight in the sea power of a trireme is small, but it helps reduce the hitpoints of the defenders; thus making the attack easier to carry.
With modern units combining battles naval and land forces promises to be formidable.

The battle against the Iroquois was easy, he had a soldier, attacked by surprise in a plain at the beginning. The remaining seats were only small cities (locations with valuable, especially the first and the second was here an opportunity to get rid of a neighbor who we wanted for a long time, a priori, the capital of the Iroquois was much further south).
The Japanese, with the code of Bushido, or with its Greek hoplites, would have been tougher. Especially without legions.

Fighting in Civ 5 should apply in fact far more subtle than in Civ 4, or unfortunately the confrontation quickly turned into a duel of stacks of units. The interface provides an almost perfect legibility of different factors to consider. These are sufficiently numerous to change the situation, and not too much to drown the player with too many cases of FIGS. Civ 5 is probably the best rules for a wargame classic.

The various special units should also help to spice up the battles though, the Egyptian chariots with archers for example, fast, does not require the resource to be built Horses. Obviously the higher your technology progresses, the more you can adjust your tactics, playing on the strength, speed (knights ... which does not receive a defensive bonus of the land) or the range of your units (especially with aviation). The amphibious attacks are also possible, very early indeed, and give a penalty of -50%. The buildings have a lot with buildings such as barracks, giving 15 XP cash, or other buildings to amend the defensive potential (wall, castle) or speed of production units (teams).

But as you might expect, even with new units and technologies, the logic of battles should remain the same. Even the Giant Robot Death Force (150!) Has its limitations, namely penalty defense and urban warfare (not to mention the need for uranium).

Finally, even with a medium (in terms of potential) as was the case here, the choice of a party-oriented war does not paralyze the rest of the game can still search in parallel or non-military technology construct buildings for culture, for example. Obviously this will not compete in science or culture against an opponent focusing on that, but you can still develop something else, and thus "simulating" the phases of peace and periods of war 's intermingling consistently in the life of your civilization warmonger.
Alliances with the city-states are also added here, or to strengthen your military production (with a militaristic city), or your cultural expansion (with a city planted).

Some cards can lead to more difficult situations, and some reversals of AI, in theory at least. Another point to remember, maintenance units, which cost 8 gold at the beginning of this war weighing heavily on the finances of Rome.

Another benefit in terms of war, in addition to capturing the cities or to gain power his army also captured enemies of the workers (or looting of the facilities, a dozen gold prior mean, the beginning) . The defect here is that sometimes when the workers are too many we do not know necessarily what to do, again depending on the card, bonus and resources to operate / connect cities. In the worst cases of excess workers, nothing prevents us from building forts in the boxes untapped, even using them as human shields (it blocks the passage on a hex) or as bait to lure an enemy unit in cases.

The fighting between units will last as many rounds as their hit points and damage. A balance of power in the same range, two or three towers seem a good average to eliminate an enemy unit. This creates a certain dynamic in wars that promise to be exciting and often require several major battles before ending.

                                                                    - All the success of an operation lies in its preparation. Sun Tzu.
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发表于 2010-9-3 12:35:25 | 显示全部楼层
如果我没理解错的话,黄金时代一开始8回合,每触发一回减少一回合直到3。这样看来伟人开黄金时代的费用应该就不递增了,应该会有更多的伟人用来祭天开黄金时代。
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 楼主| 发表于 2010-9-3 12:58:29 | 显示全部楼层
每次减3,所以第二次开就是5回合,第三次就只剩3回合了……但也已经比四代里好了。

[ 本帖最后由 ikariam 于 2010-9-3 13:07 编辑 ]
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发表于 2010-9-4 00:44:54 | 显示全部楼层
我感觉是——奇迹好建成得好早啊~~

才王子难度。
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发表于 2010-9-4 01:01:40 | 显示全部楼层
中文翻译给GFW了 还是只能看鸟文
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发表于 2010-9-4 03:16:23 | 显示全部楼层
。。。其实。。。我懂得。。。
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发表于 2010-9-4 03:48:44 | 显示全部楼层
Tour 1 : une ancienne ruine révèle des barbares plein nord et au sud est (mieux que rien, pour aller exercer les armées. Production d’un éclaireur.
一个古老的遗迹刷出了一些野蛮人在北边和南边(比什么没有好。至少可以训练军队)        训练侦察兵
Tour 5 : Elisabeth déclare son hostilité, sans raison apparente.
伊丽沙巴无理的表示敌意
Tour 9 : 2nde ruines anciennes, carte des environs (pas de chance, une cache d’armes aurait été la bienvenue).
发现第2个古代遗迹。四周的地图。(运气不好。如果要是cache d’armes就好了)
Tour 13 : 3ème ruines anciennes, 55 or en plus dans le trésor.
第3个古代遗迹。55G
Tour 16 : la population de Rome passe à 3.
罗马的人口涨到了3
Tour 22 : découverte de Navigation (pour exploiter le poisson peu après).
研究航海
Tour 23 : Rome s’engage dans la voie sociale de l’Honneur (nombreux bonus militaires).
罗马选择了荣誉社会的政策(有军事加成)
Tour 25 : un camp de barbares rasé (9 xp / 200 pour le 1er général illustre).
摧毁了野蛮人的营地 (9/200经验的大军事家)
Tour 26 : des barbares aux portes de Rome (ils n’ont rien à piller).
一些野蛮人在罗马附近(他们没东西可抢)
Tour 28 : d’autres barbares arrivent du nord cette fois.
一些野蛮人到了北边
Tour 29 : découverte de Poterie.
发现陶器
Tour 32 : première promotion d’unité (face à barbares à Rome).
单位的第一次升级  一次成功防御野蛮人
Tour 33 : pacte avec Catherine contre Elisabeth.
与凯特林娜签订了对付伊丽沙白的条约
Tour 34 : coopération avec Hiawatha et Catherine.
和(织田信长)以及凯特林娜合作
Tour 35 : contact avec Belgrade (plein sud, voisin de l’égyptien).
与贝尔格莱德建立联系(非常南边。埃及的邻居)
Tour 36 : découverte de Tir à l’arc.
发现弓箭
Tour 38 : trouvaille d’artefacts dans une ruine ancienne (+30 culture) ; adoption de code du guerrier, qui donne un grand général ; celui-ci permet un âge d’or de 8 tours (chaque âge d’or déclenché par un personnage illustre réduit de 3 la durée de l’âge d’or suivant ; durée minimum 3 tours) ou de construire une forteresse (+100 % défense unité et -3 PV unité ennemie adjacente). Le général Sun Tzu prend les commandes des armées romaines.
幸运的发现石工术在一个古代遗迹里,采用战争法规,获得一个大军事家,这个军事家能够开启8个回合的黄金时代。(由伟人开创的黄金时代每次减少3回合,最少3个回合)或者建设要塞(是不是长城阿)加100单位防御(-3 PV unité ennemie adjacente后面那个看不懂),大军事家孙子开始带领罗马军队
Tour 39 : Rome + 1 pop.
罗马人口+1
Tour 43 : découverte d’Exploitation minière.
发现采矿
Tour 44 : une ferme va optimiser l’exploitation des champs de blé.
农场能够提高小麦产出
Tour 45  : camp barbare rasé à l’est.
摧毁东边的野蛮人营地
Tour 46 : premiers archers.
第一个弓箭手
Tour 47 : Grand Phare et Stonehenge sont construits quelque part dans un pays lointain.
大灯塔和巨石阵被建造了
Tour 55 : découverte de Calendrier ; Grande bibliothèque construite, on ne sait trop où ; des pâturages permettent de gagner un bonus en production (+1) à Rome.
发现历法,大图被建了。不知道哪建的,罗马建了几个牧场多提供了一个功业
Tour 56 : Belgrade veut voir Singapour disparaitre ; nos éclaireurs bataillent avec des barbares au sud (promotion) ; les archers en tuent d’autres au nord.
贝尔格莱德想消灭新加坡,我们对难免的野蛮人宣战(获得了晋升),同时弓箭手们在北方杀戮
Tour 58 : adoption de la doctrine Tradition militaire (expérience gagnée en combat multipliée par 2).
采取了传统军事主意,单位经验获得乘2
Tour 61 : plantation d’encens construite (bonheur passe à 9) ; l’iroquois sort de son immense forêt pour construire une cité près sur un site de choix (gemmes / bétail / poissons) non loin de Rome. C’est un casus belli pour Rome.
建造了乳香种植园 快乐增长到9
被每人离开他们广阔的森林为了在一个很好的(宝石牲畜鱼)的离罗马不远的地址上开城。这是一个罗马宣战的理由
Tour 63 : l’Oracle est construit dans un pays lointain.
神谕所被其他人建好
Tour 64 : le Colosse est construit quelque part au loin.
巨像在一个遥远的国队被建立
Tour 65 : découverte de Travail du bronze ; un camp barbare est rasé au nord.
发现青铜器,摧毁北面的野蛮人营地
Tour 66 : Antium est fondé (chevaux / bétail) au sud de Rome.
在罗马南边建造Antium (马和牲畜)
Tour 67 : Rome passe à 5 en population.
罗马增长到5人口
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发表于 2010-9-4 07:13:15 | 显示全部楼层
第一回合:“训练侦察兵”应该为“踩蘑菇得到一个侦察兵”
第九回合:作者想说如果踩到的是单位而不是地图就好了。
第三十八回合:-3 PV unité ennemie adjacente,估计是大军邻格的地方单位减三力量。
第五十六回合:“我们对难免的野蛮人宣战(获得了晋升)”应该是“侦察兵和南面的野蛮人战斗”
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 楼主| 发表于 2010-9-4 09:21:30 | 显示全部楼层
第一个大军需要200XP,没准中国只要100XP。教训一会儿野蛮人,大军就出来了~
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 楼主| 发表于 2010-9-4 09:47:33 | 显示全部楼层
文明特性会影响出生点地理条件这一点,在这篇战报里还真是明显,易洛魁地盘上那大森林实在是大得惊人——

可惜他们的能力现在只在自己地盘上起作用,那这么大片森林也没给易洛魁多少优势啊。要是这片森林全算是易洛魁的道路,哼,罗马你还能这么嚣张么。
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发表于 2010-9-4 10:59:01 | 显示全部楼层
英国在图上这么悲剧,冰原上开城。
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发表于 2010-9-4 12:38:12 | 显示全部楼层
提示: 作者被禁止或删除 内容自动屏蔽
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发表于 2010-9-6 17:16:23 | 显示全部楼层
有点模模糊糊的感受了
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发表于 2010-9-6 19:20:39 | 显示全部楼层

回复 #14 ikariam 的帖子

易洛魁的特性确实不易掌控,一不小心太弱,一不小心又过强,干脆境内森林视作道路,境外森林只耗1点移动力好了
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